{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/1v5bc3vm33/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Dr. Dannie Abse"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/246/original/CenterForHistoryFamilyMedicine_2c_RGB.png?1773344256","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1987-07-10 (captured)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Keyword"]},"value":{"en":["Society of Teachers of Family Medicine","Dannie Abse","family medicine","family physician"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Dr. Dannie Abse (personal name)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["english (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThis item is protected by U.S. copyright and related rights. It is being made available by the Center for the History of Family Medicine as its rights-holder for noncommercial use, including sharing and adapting the work. No permission is required for noncommercial use so long as attribution is provided. All other uses require permission from the Center for the History of Family Medicine.  Disclaimer:  The views presented in this broadcast are the speaker’s own and do not represent those of CHFM or the AAFP Foundation. The information presented is for general, educational, or entertainment purposes and should not be considered legal, health, financial, or other advice.\u003c/p\u003e"]}}],"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThis item is protected by U.S. copyright and related rights. It is being made available by the Center for the History of Family Medicine as its rights-holder for noncommercial use, including sharing and adapting the work. No permission is required for noncommercial use so long as attribution is provided. All other uses require permission from the Center for the History of Family Medicine. \u0026nbsp;Disclaimer: \u0026nbsp;The views presented in this broadcast are the speaker\u0026rsquo;s own and do not represent those of CHFM or the AAFP Foundation. The information presented is for general, educational, or entertainment purposes and should not be considered legal, health, financial, or other advice.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Center for the History of Family Medicine"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Center for the History of Family Medicine"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/246/original/CenterForHistoryFamilyMedicine_2c_RGB.png?1773344256","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Abse_Dannie_1987.07.10_-_Side_1.mp3"]},"duration":3656.0,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/277/769/original/Abse_Dannie_1987.07.10_-_Side_1.mp3?1750264613","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":3656.0,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Dr. Dannie Abse Interview Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJohn Frey:\u003c/strong\u003e [inaudible]. I think we have a lot of it in inpatient medicine. I don't like it. I'd just as soon be doing, practicing [inaudible]. Like when you do get in the hospitals, you see some strange things [inaudible]. Infectious disease is an example. TB, and when TB started dying, patient disease started dying as a discipline, and now, it's probably the hottest thing in medicine [inaudible]. So we changed the... Is it a TB clinic or is it just a chest clinic that you're doing?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=8.0,36.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDr. Dannie Abse:\u003c/strong\u003e  Well, it's a chest clinic, but [inaudible] quite a high percentage of the patients I would say were [inaudible] very [inaudible] and they were picking up people and then bringing them in, and [inaudible] x-raying people [inaudible] and [inaudible]. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=36.0,72.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJohn Frey:\u003c/strong\u003e [inaudible] the hospital [inaudible 00:01:22] the hospitals in the States have usually red brick buildings [inaudible 00:01:29] TB [inaudible 00:01:31] name ward X, or... ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=72.0,97.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDr. Dannie Abse:\u003c/strong\u003e [inaudible]. And they have to [inaudible]. They have [inaudible].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=97.0,103.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJohn Frey:\u003c/strong\u003e I guess the questions I had about being a physician and looking at your work from a physician's point of view is obviously very different than looking at it from a teacher of English or a teacher of poetry, or literary [inaudible]. I'm curious what the relationship is in many of the poems that do relate to medicine. Are those ideas that started in some way because of the work that you were doing? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=103.0,135.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDr. Dannie Abse:\u003c/strong\u003e In a sense, I've talked about this. There is one quite interesting essay by Mac Rosenthal, ML Rosenthal, I don't know if you know his work, but he's and American critic [inaudible]. A very astute critic. And then, he talks about the medical poems and what they say. It's probably hard for [inaudible] to say what he does say, but then my change [inaudible], I know what he means in the sense that they were... Medicine, particularly when I was a medical student and [inaudible] was a traumatic experience, as it probably was for you. And so, it would be absurd to say we managed to survive all that, [inaudible]. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=135.0,200.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e [Inaudible][Dannie abse responds, inaudible]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=200.0,206.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDr. Dannie Abse:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, have a good time if I don't you see you, but you will [inaudible ], yes? Okay, bye. [inaudible ] She's just going on holiday with [inaudible]. That's my eldest daughter. My other daughters, [inaudible] be back soon. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=206.0,225.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eJohn Frey:\u003c/strong\u003e My son's in Spain, actually.\n\nDannie Abse: Is he?\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ] and [inaudible]. So he's been living with a family and learning Spanish. We're getting him immersed in [inaudible ].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=225.0,242.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDr. Dannie Abse:\u003c/strong\u003e  [inaudible ]. I was only saying it's kind of important to try to compare one's experience as a medical student to people who [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=242.0,3862.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDr. Dannie Abse:\u003c/strong\u003e ] in the first World War in the trenches. And of course, that's a romantic view that a non-doctor might take, and yet it'd still have some substance of truth in it, and that's one I can empathize with, some of those [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=3862.0,3880.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDr. Dannie Abse:\u003c/strong\u003e ] too much [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=3880.0,3882.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDr. Dannie Abse:\u003c/strong\u003e ]. So, quite a lot of the poems I think had come out of my early experience as a doctor, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=3882.0,3893.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDr. Dannie Abse:\u003c/strong\u003e ] experience. It's not all of them, but quite a number of the poems.\n\nFurthermore, I think during the '60s, I felt very strongly that one should write out of one's total being, as it were, and so the question I would ask myself is what is Welsh in this poetry? What is Jewish in this poetry? What is medical in this poetry? After all, am I trying to turn away from it? And I look at other doctor poets and see how it has been partly an escape mechanism for the. I look at Keats and I see how he published his first poems [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=3893.0,3935.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDr. Dannie Abse:\u003c/strong\u003e ]. Leham published them. Just [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=3935.0,3947.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] qualifying in [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=3947.0,3951.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. You know that [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=3951.0,3953.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] and how he-\n\nJohn Frey: Something, I read some things about him.\n\nDannie Abse: Well, he obviously suddenly thought he had another possibility of another career. He was off assisting Billie Lucas Junior, who was... Billie Lucas Senior was a celebrated surgeon at Guy's. His son, he had asthma, and he didn't have any medical training really. Certainly he didn't know any anatomy. And so, he got the job through his father at Guy's Hospital, where he was practicing surgery and anatomy, and in the day, of course, anesthetics. Keats was his [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=3953.0,4004.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. He was an assistant to him.\n\nSo one can see the process whereby Keats had this choice, or he felt he had the choice, of going into literature, and there was an escape route, I think. I don't feel that poetry should be an escape. I feel it should be an immersion into the [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4004.0,4023.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] and not an escape from [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4023.0,4024.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. I'm just repeating myself. But having these [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4024.0,4030.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] try and confront the experience, and confront anything that's disturbing. And I think, as I've said before, I say I do repeat myself. I can't help it because I'm asked the same questions. Is that I'm very found of Louis Pasteur's definition of scientific inspiration, chance favors the prepared mind, and if your mind's prepared to write medical poems, chance is like your favor. [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4030.0,4059.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. I'm prepared to write medical poems.\n\nA lot of the poems I did write initially were from earlier experience. But in the present... In Ask the Bloody Horse, there's a poem about TB, about a more recent case, very recent. So it's not entirely rooted in things remembered.\n\nJohn Frey: I had an interesting experience when I dug out... I suspect a lot of medical students, and particularly that point, it's interesting that you should pick that particular point when you qualify the heavy clinical years in medical school and during my internship and residency, which were really, in many ways, hateful years. They were years where you, I'm not sure what the system is like over here, but you get pressured to... especially [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4059.0,4126.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] become the [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4126.0,4129.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] nurse [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4129.0,4130.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] ward, but it's really essentially medicine and nothing else but medicine. And your life starts to disappear, all the feelings and the senses, and the other connections that you have with other things start to get very [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4130.0,4143.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nAnd I remember sitting and writing, just writing things. I'm not a poet, but I enjoy writing. And it was the only way... It was a place that I could at least, for some period of time, hold onto things and put them in a form. I'm not sure who I was writing to. I guess that's the other question that people get asked [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4143.0,4164.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. When you were doing those things, who were you writing that for? Obviously, yourself is the most important person. But to some extent, I was trying to explain I guess to myself about what it was that I was sitting and doing. But I also wanted other people to hear it.\n\nI suspect there's a lot of people who may have notes or scribbles and maybe that's what letters, if people are writing letters, it's just ways of explaining what's happening.\n\nDannie Abse: Well, yes, I said earlier that I think there were [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4164.0,4195.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] medical students, but they're all [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4195.0,4201.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] here and there, under certain stress.\n\nJohn Frey: Why is it that poetry became the preferred vehicle? I know you've done all things, like plays and [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4201.0,4214.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: If I ask myself why I don't write, or at one time hadn't written any medical poems or poems with a medical flair, there was a productive question as far as I'm concerned. The question why do you write poetry at all is not a productive one. There's no point. [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4214.0,4238.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] this couch. That's not going to help me [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4238.0,4245.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: But of the writing that you did, was that the first [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4245.0,4250.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: Well, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4250.0,4251.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] when I was in [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4251.0,4258.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] for writing an essay on the evils of drink.\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ] Welsh [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4258.0,4267.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] Welsh [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4267.0,4267.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] Welsh [inaudible ]. So, you really haven't had any [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4267.0,4278.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] I'm going away to work with medical students, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4278.0,4280.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. At the beginning, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4280.0,4284.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] now more than-\n\nDannie Abse: Well, I have occasionally addressed doctors, occasionally. I have been one or two medical societies. I have [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4284.0,4298.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] them and medical schools and so on. No, I had some connection, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4298.0,4306.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. Apart from one year at Princeton, I didn't have any relationship with [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4306.0,4317.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. Students tried to write essay or poems.\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4317.0,4323.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] to some extent, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4323.0,4326.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] being [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4326.0,4327.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: I don't know. There's so many things I'm not good at, but I'm almost [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4327.0,4336.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] teaching actually. [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4336.0,4342.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: There's good teachers [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4342.0,4347.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. Do you do any work with any English [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4347.0,4354.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] or anything?\n\nDannie Abse: No, I don't. No. They sometime have courses here, very brief courses, where writers' weekends and this kind. And I think they were rather akin to group therapy. [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4354.0,4374.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. I think it was quite interesting to get [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4374.0,4379.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] where you had Black students [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4379.0,4383.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] and a relatively small number who were committed to trying to write poems or short stories or whatever. Because I don't know if you know, but at Princeton, in their fourth year, instead of writing an essay on notes [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4383.0,4398.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] a novel or a book of poems-\n\nJohn Frey: I didn't know.\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4398.0,4403.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] the creative arts program. And those people who are in it had this alternative. So, that means they were writing under various writers for four years.\n\nJohn Frey: And you'd be the person who would make the judgment on that?\n\nDannie Abse: No, you were allowed to go through it, unless somebody said you're no good, but I only went there for one year, and that year I had three students in their final year, which were really [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4403.0,4437.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] and they just confer with you. And in the earlier years, poetry and prose. Yeah, so it was an agreeable year for me. It was an easy year too.\n\nJohn Frey: I'm just talking about [inaudible ] with Julian [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4437.0,4465.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] with Julian [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4465.0,4465.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] with Julian [inaudible ] who is retired, was talking about-\n\nDannie Abse: How old is he?\n\nJohn Frey: He just turned 61. And he wanted to retire early because he's got a lot of... He's been enormously productive, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4465.0,4478.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"], but he has a lot of different stage of people's lives. I think he's at the stage now where he wants to summarize the research he's done in some way that it says this is what I believe that the future of general practice [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4478.0,4499.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"], good general practice [inaudible ], and [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4499.0,4503.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"], and [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4503.0,4503.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"], and [inaudible ] writing a couple of books about good general practice. Very interesting man. But I've been kidding him that he's been working every third night, or [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4503.0,4513.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] every third night, or every fourth sometimes, and in this village we're 25 years now. I'm not sure what it's like to suddenly stop that part. It's the idea that you're going to free up all this other time. And there's some kind of dynamic tension between [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4513.0,4530.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]-\n\nDannie Abse: Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure you're right.\n\nJohn Frey: It's difficult. Was the year particularly productive for you as far as getting [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4530.0,4536.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]-\n\nDannie Abse: No, I couldn't write anything for the first three months here, absolutely nothing. But I did just manage to write something just before I left. No, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4536.0,4553.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"], but I was [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4553.0,4555.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] watching [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4555.0,4558.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] play football.\n\nJohn Frey: I guess it's a cultural... That's the other thing that strikes me, is that there appears to be some kind of cultural... I keep coming up with [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4558.0,4575.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"], but there seem to be cultural support for physicians doing things beyond medicine.\n\nDannie Abse: Where, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4575.0,4585.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]?\n\nJohn Frey: Here. It's-\n\nDannie Abse: I think you've got it wrong. We're a very clandestine country, and we've got a particularly clandestine government at the moment, where things are going bad to worse and where we... We all used to think of America I guess with private affluence and public squalor and we've just got less private affluence and more public squalor, more and more [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4585.0,4595.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: Britain, this time I've been back about four years, but it's almost like being in Latin America [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4595.0,4626.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: I know. It's dirty. The roads are dirty. Everything's-\n\nJohn Frey: And the [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4626.0,4631.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4631.0,4632.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: It's dying. It's not really dying, but the village is [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4632.0,4637.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. It really is on [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4637.0,4644.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. There's no work; everyone's unemployed. Every year I've gone back, we usually get a trip down to [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4644.0,4652.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] because I really enjoy just walking around and seeing things and people are always glad to show me around. We have to drive farther and farther and farther, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4652.0,4659.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] South Wales and keep talking about the renaissance of [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4659.0,4665.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"], very [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4665.0,4668.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: Oh, sure. I went down to, a couple of weeks ago... My mother comes from [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4668.0,4678.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: I tried to find it on the map and it-\n\nDannie Abse: It's in the Swansea Valley.\n\nJohn Frey: Oh, okay. [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4678.0,4690.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: No, more to the left. Well, if you look where Swansea is, and you just go north, and it's in the Swansea Valley. It's [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4690.0,4701.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. They're starting a heritage thing there, where they had their little concert and where they have the girls playing the [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4701.0,4714.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. And [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4714.0,4721.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] they had some [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4721.0,4723.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] and shows there, but [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4723.0,4726.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] had [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4726.0,4730.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] and [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4730.0,4734.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. Not today. He said, \"All right,\" he said, \"[inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4734.0,4741.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\" I said, \"Daily or weekly?\" He said, \"Oh, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4741.0,4748.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\" It's so different. I said, \"There must be something [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4748.0,4757.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] for you to come to [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4757.0,4760.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\"\n\nJohn Frey: How much time do you spend in each place?\n\nDannie Abse: Well, I try to [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4760.0,4765.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. I have [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4765.0,4773.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] who is north who's 98. We have to go up there, or Joan has to go up there. So we're going to where [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4773.0,4785.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. But we'll be going down next weekend. And then [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4785.0,4793.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] get down there [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4793.0,4797.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: The Cultural Revolution [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4797.0,4799.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. London has changed in a lot of ways. It's been a very [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4799.0,4806.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: I don't know. I think the [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4806.0,4810.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: We stayed down at the Royal College, which was convenient, very, very nice, and I actually used the library for a few things. It's astounding to see the difference, and of course, whatever you call the welfare state. I keep pulling up the people back home. There is medical care available for everyone here. I'll give them [inaudible ] come up with, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4810.0,4832.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] come up with, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4832.0,4832.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] come up with, [inaudible ] baseline for everyone, by whatever mechanism, that the conditions... I've done a little bit more traveling and [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4832.0,4845.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] hospitals here.\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4845.0,4850.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] the hospital beds in the corridors. They haven't got porters to take people down to x-ray the problem when they're practically on their last legs. How many [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4850.0,4865.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]? No, in '72, '74, wanted to have discussions with American friends and I used to be able to swag about our medical health service and about our BBC and our police, relatively. A lack of muggings and all this sort of thing. And it just seems indeed around about that time when we got back, it just got worse and worse. And [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4865.0,4903.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] you see it in the behavior of people too. You see it in the way people drive. And I drive a lot down to Wales, and the aggressive speed, more and more people jumping red lights in the cities. They all [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4903.0,4922.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] lead poisoning.\n\nJohn Frey: I think it's a cultural metaphor.\n\nDannie Abse: No, it's one way [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4922.0,4929.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. It's like suicide measures depression in people, I suppose. You can't measure... When people get depression, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4929.0,4941.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4941.0,4943.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] I think is a system if statistics will keep coming up that students are more depressed, economically depressed or otherwise, that's an area [inaudible ] work of the health system [inaudible ]. Obviously, the less [inaudible ] people have, the more [inaudible ] illness [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4943.0,4948.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] work of the health system [inaudible ]. Obviously, the less [inaudible ] people have, the more [inaudible ] illness [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4948.0,4948.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] work of the health system [inaudible ]. Obviously, the less [inaudible ] people have, the more [inaudible ] illness [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4948.0,4948.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] work of the health system [inaudible ]. Obviously, the less [inaudible ] people have, the more [inaudible ] illness [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4948.0,4948.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] work of the health system [inaudible ]. Obviously, the less [inaudible ] people have, the more [inaudible ] illness [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4948.0,4948.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] work of the health system [inaudible ]. Obviously, the less [inaudible ] people have, the more [inaudible ] illness [inaudible ] and GP's been busy\n\nAnd there's differences between the John Frey of England and his writing about how things have gotten much easier for general practice over the last 15 to 20 years in his practice [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4948.0,4980.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. Everything in the statistics that I read about Wales or industrial [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4980.0,4986.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] just incredibly [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4986.0,4991.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. We don't have a health system, which then makes people have to choose between leaving their families, paying the rent, or going to the doctor. And so, we've got close to 12% [inaudible ]. It's very difficult to [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4991.0,4999.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. It's very difficult to [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4999.0,4999.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. It's very difficult to [inaudible ]. About 4% of the country that has no medical care at all. If they're desperate, they go to the public hospitals and hope that the hospital [inaudible ] doesn't [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=4999.0,5020.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] doesn't [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5020.0,5020.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] doesn't [inaudible ] their house or something like that.\n\nSo, it's a terrible system, but what we see is doctors are less busy now than they were a few years ago. There's more doctors around, so the competition... [inaudible ] competition when they're competing for [inaudible ] competing for people [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5020.0,5022.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] competition when they're competing for [inaudible ] competing for people [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5022.0,5022.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] competition when they're competing for [inaudible ] competing for people [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5022.0,5022.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] competition when they're competing for [inaudible ] competing for people [inaudible ]. In some ways, I keep part of this whole sense of looking at medical students trying to do something with them now. But in some ways, it's probably exercising some need I have to make sure that at least we keep reminding students that in the world it's [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5022.0,5062.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] have some obligation to go and change it, even though at a local level... I guess that's part of why I've been searching for physicians who've done more than-\n\nDannie Abse: Actually, I think just to read humanized case history [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5062.0,5081.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] students. In the last issue of Literature Medicine, I can't remember who wrote it, but there was a [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5081.0,5097.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"], wasn't there? And then there was somebody writing about neurological conditions, and progressive neurological conditions. [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5097.0,5115.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: ALS?\n\nDannie Abse: Yes, yes. ALS. I think they had to put it... This man had, in a story or story if it was a case history. Have you read that? I found it very moving. I showed it to my wife. She didn't find it so moving. Just showed how much softer I am [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5115.0,5140.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. But I thought this is the sort of thing medical students should read, because they saw the over-concerned woman doctor, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5140.0,5152.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] and her husband. But [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5152.0,5158.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] them, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5158.0,5159.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. It's not literature. Because I think what Sax was talking about was trying to justify fictionalized and case histories, wasn't he? You've read the woman who [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5159.0,5177.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5177.0,5179.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: Well, in his earlier book. And one had the feeling that there was a fictional element in it. But to me, he was justifying doing that and he was into [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5179.0,5199.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"], doing the same thing [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5199.0,5204.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] remarkable cases [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5204.0,5205.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. And just a few pages along, I read this case history, which I found touching [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5205.0,5213.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. And [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5213.0,5217.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. It enlarges perspective, I think, of a medical student, to read these like that, and start thinking of family relationships. Because I think what happens, when you're a medical student, you're just so frightened, you're so conscious of yourself, so worried about making a fool of yourself, that you can't, I don't know, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5217.0,5246.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] or whatever. Just everybody else is doing it and you want to.\n\nYou're not thinking of a patient when you just want to get what you can out of it. And I do think that these kind of case histories and literature can, as it were, be highly educative [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5246.0,5269.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: So now, I've been trying to talk about things that are standard in style of presenting. [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5269.0,5280.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] never been in a hospital [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5280.0,5281.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"], British hospital. I'm not sure that I really need to at this point. I'd be curious for the reason that I would be interested to see what the standard style of presenting a patient, because what we often do is, \"This 62 year old white male.\" Even that term is such a ridiculous... White male what? Yeah, but phony or... Is it closer to... And I keep saying that when I'm... Two weeks a year, I say to them, \"I don't want people presented to me like that. I want you to tell me a little story about them. I want you to put in a paragraph a little bit about this person's life. But don't talk to me about a white male, Black male, whatever it is, married, kids, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5281.0,5331.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] all those types of things.\"\n\nAnd they're actually worried because they feel if they do that for a couple of weeks, it might get them out of rhythm, but then they'll get judged badly by not being good presenters. It's the whole cultural of this. And in some ways, if anyone survives with a sense, not only of a perspective of who these people are and what they do and how they struggle and stuff, even the language to put that struggle into [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5331.0,5359.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. And one of the things that I wanted to talk with you about a little bit was... [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5359.0,5366.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] I talked a month or so ago about [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5366.0,5371.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] editing the journals, I can take a few risks. And what I'm trying to do is to put together a special issue in about a year's time or so, on the way of storytelling in critical medicine, simply because that's really what we do when we talk about patients. We tell each stories, every little...\n\nNo one ever sits down with another doctor and says, \"I want to tell you about this 62 year old white male,\" or whatever. \"You talk about Mr. So and so or Mrs. So and so. Or you know her, she's the one that's always [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5371.0,5404.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\" And that's how we talk. And if we didn't have that, then I think it would be... But somehow trying to put together an issue-\n\nDannie Abse: And what about surgeons do you think?\n\nJohn Frey: Surgeons are characters. There's a certain kind of-\n\nDannie Abse: I did write a very simple thing called [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5404.0,5424.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] cases [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5424.0,5427.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] simply about someone who was calling the patient more or less a white male, actually didn't know his name, and I had to look at the [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5427.0,5441.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] chart eventually to find out the name. Knew everything about the person, but didn't [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5441.0,5447.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. And I wrote this poem, and sometime after it was published, I had an encounter with Charlie Wesby. Charles Wesby is an eminent surgeon who does very radical surgery. And he said, well, he wanted to [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5447.0,5477.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. He said, \"Well, if there's an accident in the street,\" he said, \"I can't do anything. I just look around [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5477.0,5487.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] devastated if [inaudible ] someone in the street [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5487.0,5490.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] someone in the street [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5490.0,5490.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] someone in the street [inaudible ].\" He said, \"Give me a couple of inches of skin and I'm...\"\n\nJohn Frey: One [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5490.0,5499.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: And he said, \"I don't want to know.\" He said, \"I [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5499.0,5504.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] thinking that way, otherwise I couldn't [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5504.0,5506.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\" So, the country here, so maybe it's just the medical students and maybe physicians, but one [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5506.0,5514.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: Well, I remember one of the most graphic experiences I ever had was when I was a premed student and we didn't have a doctor in our family, so I was kind of wandering around and met someone who was surgeon. He said, \"Why don't you come and be a scrub tech for the summer?\" I said, \"All right, what does the scrub tech do?\" He says, \"Well, just what interns do, just pull retractors all day.\" So, I remember the first couple of weeks, nothing bothered me particularly. And then, there was a gallbladder [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5514.0,5552.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. They had to do an interoperative cholangiogram. So the [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5552.0,5555.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] x-ray machine and turned all the lights off and we all stood away. The light changed and I looked at him, and here was this person [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5555.0,5564.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] gaping open. And I almost passed out. It was just this quick thing.\n\nAnd then I said, \"No, it's not. This is a gallbladder [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5564.0,5574.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\" It was the most... And it's something I'm aware that I do, and I think we all do to some extent, is you objectify simply because it makes it... I'm not sure what the reasons are, but if it somehow saves us, whatever it is that shocks us.\n\nDannie Abse: But it can be very [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5574.0,5593.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]... One of the things that's really scarred me really, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5593.0,5601.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] stenciled on my mind, there was this one particularly patient also when I was a student where in the surgery, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5601.0,5614.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] patient. And [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5614.0,5617.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] chap called Winn Williams and [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5617.0,5619.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] half a dozen or so [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5619.0,5620.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] one-by-one and [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5620.0,5623.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] cubical. And when I went inside, there was a [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5623.0,5629.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. She was hunchback little lady. And she had her gown on her, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5629.0,5639.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. I came in, she [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5639.0,5646.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] as it were, and I tried to ask a few questions [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5646.0,5656.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. And I couldn't be [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5656.0,5658.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] examine her. I [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5658.0,5660.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] examine her, and I never [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5660.0,5662.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] managed to get one [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5662.0,5664.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. And [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5664.0,5667.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nI was in the middle. There were three students after me, and went in there, and I don't know [inaudible ] nothing out of it. And then we all [inaudible ] afterwards. [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5667.0,5686.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] nothing out of it. And then we all [inaudible ] afterwards. [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5686.0,5686.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] nothing out of it. And then we all [inaudible ] afterwards. [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5686.0,5686.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] nothing out of it. And then we all [inaudible ] afterwards. [inaudible ]. However, she was [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5686.0,5689.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. I had to keep [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5689.0,5690.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] history, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5690.0,5696.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] features, anything. They all came out [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5696.0,5699.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] no [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5699.0,5700.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"], not one thing. She told everything to all those other students and [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5700.0,5706.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. And as I was leaving later on that particular out-patient, she was [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5706.0,5717.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] just as I was leaving, and she gave me such a look [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5717.0,5723.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. She gave me such a look of charm. And I figured out maybe that there must've been in my... [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5723.0,5732.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] my repulsion, or revulsion rather, and that I must've shown some [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5732.0,5742.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] face of pity or something to her, which so irritated her.\n\nSo the fact that I didn't treat her as a case, but as a human being, and she wouldn't talk to me. Maybe that's not the right explanation, but it's as good as any as far as I can think of. So it's...\n\nJohn Frey: And those things do stay with you. It's a remarkable-\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5742.0,5770.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"], yes.\n\nJohn Frey: I remembered... They have names and faces. The interesting thing is, you get into... Being a GP, it's one of those things where, I keep thinking that what we encourage our trainees to do is to... Someone said that family medicine is that branch of medicine that deals with diseases that require knowing the patient's name. Now that's maybe overstating it, but I think it's a nice capture because if you don't describe-\n\nDannie Abse: My other daughter. Hello.\n\nJohn Frey: Hello.\n\nDannie Abse: Have you been to North Carolina?\n\nJohn Frey: Nice to meet you.\n\nSpeaker 4: Nice to meet you too. [inaudible ]. This is the next [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: About every year.\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: She still has her outfit on.\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible ]?\n\nJohn Frey: She still has her outfit on.\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5770.0,5814.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. This is the next [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: About every year.\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: She still has her outfit on.\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible ]?\n\nJohn Frey: She still has her outfit on.\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5814.0,5814.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. This is the next [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: About every year.\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: She still has her outfit on.\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible ]?\n\nJohn Frey: She still has her outfit on.\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5814.0,5814.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. This is the next [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: About every year.\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: She still has her outfit on.\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible ]?\n\nJohn Frey: She still has her outfit on.\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5814.0,5814.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. This is the next [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: About every year.\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: She still has her outfit on.\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible ]?\n\nJohn Frey: She still has her outfit on.\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5814.0,5814.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. This is the next [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: About every year.\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: She still has her outfit on.\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible ]?\n\nJohn Frey: She still has her outfit on.\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5814.0,5814.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. This is the next [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: About every year.\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: She still has her outfit on.\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible ]?\n\nJohn Frey: She still has her outfit on.\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: Very fashionable. A lot of girls could probably wear that beautiful...\n\nJohn Frey: And especially [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5814.0,5838.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. Between South Wales, there's a lot of [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5838.0,5843.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5843.0,5844.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5844.0,5845.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] Saturday and Sunday. If I go back with a sunburn to North Carolina and people say, \"Where did you get your sunburn?\" I say, \"Wales.\"\n\nSpeaker 4: Wales, right. [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: And [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5845.0,5859.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/208","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: And [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5859.0,5859.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/209","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: And [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5859.0,5859.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: And [inaudible ] in the Brisbane channel. You don't see them anymore. The ward is [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5859.0,5867.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5867.0,5869.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/212","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5869.0,5876.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/213","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5876.0,5878.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/214","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. The [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5878.0,5879.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/215","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5879.0,5882.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/216","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] the big green spot [inaudible ].\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5882.0,5889.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/217","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5889.0,5889.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/218","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5889.0,5898.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/219","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] didn't like that, your guest. It wasn't [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5898.0,5901.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/220","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] enough notice.\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5901.0,5904.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/221","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5904.0,5906.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/222","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] like a present.\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5906.0,5909.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/223","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: You are [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5909.0,5911.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/224","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5911.0,5914.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/225","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5914.0,5915.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/226","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] dreamy state and napping on the [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5915.0,5917.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/227","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] sofa.\n\nSpeaker 4: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5917.0,5919.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/228","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: The [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5919.0,5922.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/229","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] thing about, it's one of the characters, is a reporter who's in search of Reagan's brain that's been [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5922.0,5929.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/230","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] now for about eight years.\n\nSpeaker 4: Yeah, I know, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5929.0,5935.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/231","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"], but [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5935.0,5938.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/232","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5938.0,5941.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/233","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] medical student coming to London who was called O Jones. It's about a Welsh, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5941.0,5950.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/234","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. But it was [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5950.0,5952.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/235","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. And his incapacity, basically. It was only a thousand times worse [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5952.0,5961.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/236","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] see how bad he was. It's supposed to be a humorous novel.\n\nSpeaker 4: Oh, Jones?\n\nDannie Abse: It's called O Jones, O Jones. I wrote another novel, an earlier one, called Some Corner of an English Field, which were about two doctors in the RAF, one of whom was the capable doctor, the only one, had problems.\n\nJohn Frey: Who were the publishers of those? I can get-\n\nDannie Abse: Huh?\n\nJohn Frey: Who were the publishers of those?\n\nDannie Abse: No, it's out of print.\n\nJohn Frey: Sometimes what you can get is... No? Book searching agencies [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=5961.0,6015.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/237","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]-\n\nDannie Abse: Oh, you can. You might be able to. Yes. It's [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=6015.0,6020.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/238","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. You can do. Now and again, one turns up, but they're not cheap, I'm afraid. And I can't help [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=6020.0,6035.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/239","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. You may find them... I think Duke got a library in-\n\nJohn Frey: Between Duke [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=6035.0,6042.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/240","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] and [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=6042.0,6043.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/241","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: Yeah, they may be in the library. Some Corner of an English Field was published in America by-\n\nJohn Frey: Really?\n\nDannie Abse: Yes, by [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=6043.0,6050.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/242","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] Books. It was 1958 I believe. They were taken over by [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=6050.0,6063.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/243","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] years and years ago. Those two books may be in your library.\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=6063.0,6073.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/244","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. My wife is very good at these things. She can track things down.\n\nDannie Abse: I haven't too much [inaudible ]. I could get [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=6073.0,6089.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/245","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. I could get [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=6089.0,6089.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/246","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. I could get [inaudible ] one day.\n\nJohn Frey: It's like a lot of things in many cases. What you may have written was something that people weren't prepared to read at that point in time, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=6089.0,6096.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/247","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: Well, they were quite well... Well, O Jones, it was less... Some Corner of an English Field was quite well-reviewed. O Jones was... In fact, what actually happened to me, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=6096.0,6107.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/248","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"], I didn't actually [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=6107.0,6109.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/249","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] and it got quite wide attention. And the publishers... I said, \"What about having a real novel?\" So I wrote what I thought was a real novel, and that was quite successful. I didn't want to be known as a novelist. I wanted to [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=6109.0,6134.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/250","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] and I just really felt writing novels was a foolish exercise [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=6134.0,6144.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/251","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. So I didn't write another one.\n\nI started on one and got halfway through and decided not to go on. And then in the '70s, somebody, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=6144.0,6154.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/252","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] wanted me... It was doing very short novels of the publishers, and asked me if I'd like to do a short novel of 35,000 words and I had about 20,000 words. And I got interested and didn't [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=6154.0,6172.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/253","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] along [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=6172.0,6174.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/254","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] my own publishing firm. [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=6174.0,6183.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/255","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] quite [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=6183.0,6185.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/256","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"], but I wasn't frivolous and a poem shouldn't be funny. [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=6185.0,6191.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/257","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=6191.0,9790.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/258","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: No, no, I think they wanted a more serious novel from me. But it was widely reviewed and so it did okay. [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=9790.0,9801.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/259","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] paperback and did quite well in paperback.\n\nJohn Frey: I'm sure I can find it [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=9801.0,9809.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/260","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=9809.0,9812.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/261","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. O Jones wasn't published in America. Some Corner of an English Field was published in America, but that wasn't in paperback.\n\nJohn Frey: They actually had one of these book searching agencies. They have connections [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=9812.0,9826.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/262","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] where I was. I love bookstores. I go crazy. And we spent half a day there just wandering around. But they have [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=9826.0,9842.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/263","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] books in [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=9842.0,9845.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/264","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] published in Britain and [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=9845.0,9846.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/265","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] people [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=9846.0,9848.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/266","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. Of course, they had a bigger collection of American stuff, people [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=9848.0,9853.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/267","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: I'm looking at you peculiar because there was a story I told about [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=9853.0,9860.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/268","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] and why [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=9860.0,9861.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/269","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] newspaper, you probably... I didn't share it.\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=9861.0,9865.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/270","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. Julie took [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=9865.0,9867.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/271","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=9867.0,13466.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/272","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: I came for Christmas one year and-\n\nDannie Abse: But what actually happened [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13466.0,13471.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/273","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] was there was a book of mine called Way Out in the Centre, which is a book of poems. Oh, I should tell you about it because it's available in America [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13471.0,13482.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/274","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. Since my collective poems, I've published two books of poems. One is Ask the Bloody Horse, which is published by Hutchinson. The other one is called, which is now out of print in England, called Way Out in the Centre, but which is published by the University of Georgia Press-\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13482.0,13501.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/275","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: Under the title of One-Legged On Ice.\n\nJohn Frey: One?\n\nDannie Abse: Legged.\n\nJohn Frey: On Ice.\n\nDannie Abse: Yeah. On Ice. One-Legged On Ice. [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13501.0,13514.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/276","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] University of Georgia. Yeah, but so that particular book anyway, I suddenly saw a secondhand copy in [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13514.0,13523.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/277","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] in a shop. And I thought oh, I'll get that, because readings, my copy is getting a little bit [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13523.0,13531.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/278","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] through readings. Well, this was quite a [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13531.0,13536.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/279","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] copy. And I said, \"Well, that's good. I'll actually buy this copy.\" And it was just [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13536.0,13543.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/280","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. And I took it over to the cashier and the cashier said, \"It's Salinger, no?\" And I opened it up and sure enough, I'd signed it. And so, \"We don't charge much extra,\" he said, \"He signs easily.\" I said to myself, \"Thank God I [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13543.0,13567.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/281","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] otherwise [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13567.0,13568.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/282","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\" I managed to get it reasonably priced.\n\nJohn Frey: Are you getting more and more pestered by people wanting to come and talk to you about your work?\n\nDannie Abse: They're not doctors so much. Just occasionally. But I must say it's American [inaudible ]. I had somebody here last week. A chap called Miller Williams. Do you know him?\n\nJohn Frey: No, [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ]. He gave me a couple of his books. He's a very nice man.\n\nJohn Frey: Miller Williams?\n\nDannie Abse: Williams.\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ]. He's not a doctor.\n\nJohn Frey: Oh, he's not?\n\nDannie Abse: No, [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: Are there physicians in America who might know?\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13568.0,13622.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/283","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. I had somebody here last week. A chap called Miller Williams. Do you know him?\n\nJohn Frey: No, [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ]. He gave me a couple of his books. He's a very nice man.\n\nJohn Frey: Miller Williams?\n\nDannie Abse: Williams.\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ]. He's not a doctor.\n\nJohn Frey: Oh, he's not?\n\nDannie Abse: No, [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: Are there physicians in America who might know?\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13622.0,13622.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/284","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. I had somebody here last week. A chap called Miller Williams. Do you know him?\n\nJohn Frey: No, [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ]. He gave me a couple of his books. He's a very nice man.\n\nJohn Frey: Miller Williams?\n\nDannie Abse: Williams.\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ]. He's not a doctor.\n\nJohn Frey: Oh, he's not?\n\nDannie Abse: No, [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: Are there physicians in America who might know?\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13622.0,13622.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/285","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. I had somebody here last week. A chap called Miller Williams. Do you know him?\n\nJohn Frey: No, [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ]. He gave me a couple of his books. He's a very nice man.\n\nJohn Frey: Miller Williams?\n\nDannie Abse: Williams.\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ]. He's not a doctor.\n\nJohn Frey: Oh, he's not?\n\nDannie Abse: No, [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: Are there physicians in America who might know?\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13622.0,13622.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/286","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. I had somebody here last week. A chap called Miller Williams. Do you know him?\n\nJohn Frey: No, [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ]. He gave me a couple of his books. He's a very nice man.\n\nJohn Frey: Miller Williams?\n\nDannie Abse: Williams.\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ]. He's not a doctor.\n\nJohn Frey: Oh, he's not?\n\nDannie Abse: No, [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: Are there physicians in America who might know?\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13622.0,13622.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/287","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. I had somebody here last week. A chap called Miller Williams. Do you know him?\n\nJohn Frey: No, [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ]. He gave me a couple of his books. He's a very nice man.\n\nJohn Frey: Miller Williams?\n\nDannie Abse: Williams.\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ]. He's not a doctor.\n\nJohn Frey: Oh, he's not?\n\nDannie Abse: No, [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: Are there physicians in America who might know?\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13622.0,13622.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/288","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. I had somebody here last week. A chap called Miller Williams. Do you know him?\n\nJohn Frey: No, [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ]. He gave me a couple of his books. He's a very nice man.\n\nJohn Frey: Miller Williams?\n\nDannie Abse: Williams.\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ]. He's not a doctor.\n\nJohn Frey: Oh, he's not?\n\nDannie Abse: No, [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: Are there physicians in America who might know?\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13622.0,13622.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/289","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. I had somebody here last week. A chap called Miller Williams. Do you know him?\n\nJohn Frey: No, [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ]. He gave me a couple of his books. He's a very nice man.\n\nJohn Frey: Miller Williams?\n\nDannie Abse: Williams.\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ]. He's not a doctor.\n\nJohn Frey: Oh, he's not?\n\nDannie Abse: No, [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: Are there physicians in America who might know?\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13622.0,13622.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/290","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. I had somebody here last week. A chap called Miller Williams. Do you know him?\n\nJohn Frey: No, [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ]. He gave me a couple of his books. He's a very nice man.\n\nJohn Frey: Miller Williams?\n\nDannie Abse: Williams.\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ]. He's not a doctor.\n\nJohn Frey: Oh, he's not?\n\nDannie Abse: No, [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: Are there physicians in America who might know?\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ] was working [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13622.0,13624.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/291","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]-\n\nDannie Abse: Any doctors I know in America who write are [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13624.0,13628.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/292","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] in stone. I reviewed a book by [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13628.0,13637.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/293","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. Gosh, I can't think of his name. Lewis.\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13637.0,13643.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/294","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: Lewis Thomas.\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13643.0,13646.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/295","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. He's retired now [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13646.0,13650.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/296","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. They tend to be more essays. [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13650.0,13656.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/297","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's one character that, in fact he's translating so much [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13656.0,13670.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/298","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] absolute [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13670.0,13671.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/299","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] delighted because [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13671.0,13673.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/300","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] and that's Holub. He's a doctor.\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13673.0,13675.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/301","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]?\n\nDannie Abse: Yes. He's a Czech. Joan, what's Holub's first name?\n\nSpeaker 5: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13675.0,13686.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/302","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: Holub, what's his-\n\nSpeaker 5: Holub?\n\nDannie Abse: Yeah, what's his... Miroslav. Thank you. His name is Miroslav Holub. H-O-L-U-B. He's an immunologist. And I think from what I saw, this is not a hobby for him. He's very serious. But he's had a Penguin [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13686.0,13728.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/303","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] over here in translations. And more than that, other books as well and poems. He was popular particularly in Czechoslovakia during [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13728.0,13741.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/304","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] period, and now-\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13741.0,13745.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/305","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: Yes, and now he's outside all that, but he's tolerated without being... He's allowed to go abroad because he's known abroad. But I understand he's not [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13745.0,13764.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/306","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] in the union, as it were, which is rather made up of non-writers who call themselves writers. But he's a well-respected poet in Europe. As a matter of fact, I gave [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13764.0,13786.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/307","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] to chat with the British Council, who told me about this [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13786.0,13790.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/308","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] to give to him, so they should know about literature medicine because that's the sort of thing they should really focus on him. I don't want to thank any other writers that they've got, but he's really a quite significant writer.\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13790.0,13818.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/309","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]-\n\nDannie Abse: Huh?\n\nJohn Frey: Was a society of physician poets in Spain.\n\nDannie Abse: Yes.\n\nJohn Frey: I've written [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13818.0,13829.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/310","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. There's a little bit of a treasure [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13829.0,13836.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/311","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"], asking people to tell you names or [inaudible ] people. So, there's no formal way to go about this, but I wrote to someone who I know from [inaudible ]. As a matter of fact, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13836.0,13838.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/312","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] people. So, there's no formal way to go about this, but I wrote to someone who I know from [inaudible ]. As a matter of fact, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13838.0,13838.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/313","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] people. So, there's no formal way to go about this, but I wrote to someone who I know from [inaudible ]. As a matter of fact, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13838.0,13838.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/314","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] people. So, there's no formal way to go about this, but I wrote to someone who I know from [inaudible ]. As a matter of fact, [inaudible ]. He said, \"Oh, you have the whole organization.\" I actually talked to the... I was in Portugal a year ago and [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13838.0,13854.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/315","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] a friend of mine who's Portuguese and [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13854.0,13855.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/316","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] all these people. [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13855.0,13860.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/317","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] unfortunately [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13860.0,13861.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/318","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. And yet-\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ]. If they ask [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13861.0,13867.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/319","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. If they ask [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13867.0,13867.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/320","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. If they ask [inaudible ], are they honest? That's the thing, are they honest?\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13867.0,13871.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/321","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. The people in my university library [inaudible ] those languages [inaudible ] when I [inaudible ] talked to [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: Oh, really?\n\nJohn Frey: And [inaudible ], he's really an interesting man. He's still an active...\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: He's working at the Cancer Institute now. He [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13871.0,13874.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/322","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] those languages [inaudible ] when I [inaudible ] talked to [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: Oh, really?\n\nJohn Frey: And [inaudible ], he's really an interesting man. He's still an active...\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: He's working at the Cancer Institute now. He [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13874.0,13874.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/323","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] those languages [inaudible ] when I [inaudible ] talked to [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: Oh, really?\n\nJohn Frey: And [inaudible ], he's really an interesting man. He's still an active...\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: He's working at the Cancer Institute now. He [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13874.0,13874.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/324","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] those languages [inaudible ] when I [inaudible ] talked to [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: Oh, really?\n\nJohn Frey: And [inaudible ], he's really an interesting man. He's still an active...\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: He's working at the Cancer Institute now. He [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13874.0,13874.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/325","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] those languages [inaudible ] when I [inaudible ] talked to [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: Oh, really?\n\nJohn Frey: And [inaudible ], he's really an interesting man. He's still an active...\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: He's working at the Cancer Institute now. He [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13874.0,13874.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/326","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] those languages [inaudible ] when I [inaudible ] talked to [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: Oh, really?\n\nJohn Frey: And [inaudible ], he's really an interesting man. He's still an active...\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: He's working at the Cancer Institute now. He [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13874.0,13874.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/327","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] those languages [inaudible ] when I [inaudible ] talked to [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: Oh, really?\n\nJohn Frey: And [inaudible ], he's really an interesting man. He's still an active...\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: He's working at the Cancer Institute now. He [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13874.0,13874.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/328","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] those languages [inaudible ] when I [inaudible ] talked to [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: Oh, really?\n\nJohn Frey: And [inaudible ], he's really an interesting man. He's still an active...\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: He's working at the Cancer Institute now. He [inaudible ] own practice for about 20 years and retired because he was getting tired. But even now, he does primary [inaudible ]. I'm always astounding by people who are able to do [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13874.0,13895.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/329","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. I'm always astounding by people who are able to do [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13895.0,13895.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/330","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. I'm always astounding by people who are able to do [inaudible ] poetry and [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13895.0,13912.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/331","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. Seems like that would be very... You obviously-\n\nDannie Abse: I'm a compulsive writer and I finish about six poems a year, so which means I have plenty of time to write something. But I can't see myself writing [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13912.0,13927.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/332","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] novels really because I don't [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13927.0,13934.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/333","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"], but the two things that I like best are related to medicine. One of them is called the [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13934.0,13948.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/334","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"], one of the [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13948.0,13952.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/335","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"], the essay [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13952.0,13955.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/336","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13955.0,13956.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/337","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: So you know what it is based on. But that was produced in New York in a particular theater. The play of mine I like best is [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13956.0,13969.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/338","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13969.0,13972.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/339","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: Which [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13972.0,13975.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/340","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] is also out of print. But again, may be in your library. It takes place in [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13975.0,13987.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/341","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] private mental hospital. It's a [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13987.0,13992.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/342","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] who goes mad and thinks he's the original [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13992.0,13994.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/343","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13994.0,13999.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/344","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=13999.0,14005.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/345","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] patients [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14005.0,14011.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/346","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] cuckoo [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14011.0,14018.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/347","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: No, no.\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14018.0,14023.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/348","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: There was was three major figures, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14023.0,14033.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/349","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] and someone else, who were the three characters who-\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14033.0,14040.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/350","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: I think it's one of the friendship [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14040.0,14042.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/351","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: It's [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14042.0,14044.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/352","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: Medicine, it's a remarkable source of things. We have access to [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14044.0,14061.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/353","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. I had a wonderful experience many years ago. I first started teaching, I had a senior psychologist from Clark University in Mass. I taught at University of Massachusetts for eight years before I moved to Chapel Hill.\n\nDannie Abse: Did you know [inaudible ]?\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: At the University of Massachusetts.\n\nJohn Frey: That's in Amherst, the University [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14061.0,14084.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/354","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]?\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: At the University of Massachusetts.\n\nJohn Frey: That's in Amherst, the University [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14084.0,14084.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/355","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]?\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: At the University of Massachusetts.\n\nJohn Frey: That's in Amherst, the University [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14084.0,14084.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/356","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]?\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: At the University of Massachusetts.\n\nJohn Frey: That's in Amherst, the University [inaudible ].\n\nDannie Abse: Oh, in Amherst, yeah.\n\nJohn Frey: I was in Worcester, which was [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14084.0,14085.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/357","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] Wooster, so I think that was one of those unfortunate... Chapel Hill was everything together [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14085.0,14090.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/358","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. But this was a medical school. And I was really hungry for some other outside of medicine context to give myself perspective on what I was doing [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14090.0,14106.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/359","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. I had a senior psychologist who had become a very close friend [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14106.0,14108.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/360","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] and he followed me around for a week, just to see what it is that I did and what we could work on together. I had one afternoon where I just had a series of amazing experience with people that just would say things that were wonderful and sad, and all sorts of just up and down emotions [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14108.0,14139.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/361","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] stop and think to myself...\n\nAnd we got done and he just said, \"And they pay you.\" Everybody. It's a remarkable thing, the idea that someone would come and pay you to tell old stories to you, even if I just... We do a lot of work with video cameras now, which in some ways is a little artificial, but at least it captures some moments that are really extraordinary. [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14139.0,14174.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/362","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] I guess general practice, everyone has that [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14174.0,14176.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/363","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] experiences. In surgery, you usually have to do... I'm less enamored of the wonders of putting your hand into [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14176.0,14185.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/364","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] and then [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14185.0,14187.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/365","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. She reads a lot of the same things that I do, but she sees things very differently. And so, she thought that was really interesting.\n\nAnd I just liked the way he captured what people would say to him. There's something about the interaction, the story, and you get back to this whole sense of... I think maybe that's what [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14187.0,14208.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/366","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] teach a course, it wouldn't be appreciated. Humanities in medicine, something grandiose like that, but I teach it [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14208.0,14215.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/367","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] storyteller and a better story listener [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14215.0,14220.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/368","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] because that's really what the process is all about, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14220.0,14226.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/369","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. Because most people get into practice, that's what keeps them going. All the other things-\n\nDannie Abse: I will say, there are justifications of poems that are sort of lessons in themselves. And there's one by Roka. Do you know-\n\nJohn Frey: I know Roka. I'm not sure if I know this particular-\n\nDannie Abse: What?\n\nJohn Frey: I know a Roka.\n\nDannie Abse: You know a book about [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14226.0,14252.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/370","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] short [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14252.0,14254.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/371","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. They're all short. [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14254.0,14255.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/372","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] silence complete all around him [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14255.0,14260.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/373","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] like neighbors. What my neighbors [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14260.0,14263.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/374","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] if there could be complete silence, or I could give you away [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14263.0,14268.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/375","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] giving thanks to all the living. It's a very beautiful thing. And it's just talking about if all the clamor that my senses made did not confound the vigil I would keep, then I could give you away as if giving thanks to all the living. And the comment that [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14268.0,14285.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/376","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] make all the time in social conditions, the [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14285.0,14292.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/377","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"], especially for men I think, for women [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14292.0,14294.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/378","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] I'm not sure, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14294.0,14297.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/379","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nSo I think there are sometimes one can refer to poems and learn [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14297.0,14309.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/380","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] just as [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14309.0,14311.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/381","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] case histories.\n\nJohn Frey: Interesting, there are more women going into medicine. Is your wife a doctor?\n\nDannie Abse: No, she's an artist [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14311.0,14324.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/382","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. She's written a book [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14324.0,14328.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/383","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"], published in America, and [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14328.0,14332.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/384","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] in America.\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14332.0,14336.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/385","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: Do you know [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14336.0,14338.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/386","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] Newark. And she's done a book in the art galleries [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14338.0,14347.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/387","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] what I call the half book, the [inaudible ] gallery book for the [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14347.0,14351.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/388","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] gallery book for the [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14351.0,14351.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/389","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] gallery book for the [inaudible ] gallery [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14351.0,14353.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/390","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. And that's what we're doing at the movement [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14353.0,14361.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/391","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] people [inaudible ] do the thing at the [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14361.0,14363.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/392","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] do the thing at the [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14363.0,14363.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/393","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] do the thing at the [inaudible ] gallery. You've been to [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14363.0,14364.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/394","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"], haven't you?\n\nJohn Frey: Yeah, actually that's where Julie went to [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14364.0,14367.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/395","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: Yeah. She went there [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14367.0,14369.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/396","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]?\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14369.0,14371.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/397","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: She went [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14371.0,14373.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/398","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]? They're having [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14373.0,14375.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/399","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] at the moment [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14375.0,14380.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/400","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: I didn't. I saw in the, I don't know if it was in the [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14380.0,14381.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/401","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. I've been reading everything. But that was there the list with your reading on the 21st.\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14381.0,14390.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/402","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: Yeah, it was list of your reading, you and your wife and-\n\nDannie Abse: How many [inaudible ] and then-\n\nJohn Frey: Two of your readings...\n\nDannie Abse: Oh, yes, the new one [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14390.0,14403.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/403","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] and then-\n\nJohn Frey: Two of your readings...\n\nDannie Abse: Oh, yes, the new one [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14403.0,14403.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/404","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] and then-\n\nJohn Frey: Two of your readings...\n\nDannie Abse: Oh, yes, the new one [inaudible ].\n\nJohn Frey: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14403.0,14407.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/405","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. We get [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14407.0,14411.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/406","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nDannie Abse: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14411.0,14413.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/407","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] I've watched it only once, and that's [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14413.0,14417.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/408","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. She was a great friend of John [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14417.0,14420.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/409","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn Frey: Oh, really?\n\nDannie Abse: Yeah. On one occasion, they were going to have a series on TV called Friends of John Bechman, or John Bechman and Friends. I wasn't a friend of John Bechman, but I nevertheless [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14420.0,14440.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/410","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. And for the pilot program, unfortunately [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14440.0,14447.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769/transcript/81234/annotation/411","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"], he was no longer capable. And they did this pilot where-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150618/file/277769#t=14447.0,14453.0"}]}]}]}