{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/q814m93d2j/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Dr. Henry Go"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/246/original/CenterForHistoryFamilyMedicine_2c_RGB.png?1773344256","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1989-03-28 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio file"]}},{"label":{"en":["Keyword"]},"value":{"en":["Society of Teachers of Family Medicine","Dr. Henry Go","family medicine","family physician"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Dr. Henry Go (personal name)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["english (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThis item is protected by U.S. copyright and related rights. It is being made available by the Center for the History of Family Medicine as its rights-holder for noncommercial use, including sharing and adapting the work. No permission is required for noncommercial use so long as attribution is provided. All other uses require permission from the Center for the History of Family Medicine.  Disclaimer:  The views presented in this broadcast are the speaker’s own and do not represent those of CHFM or the AAFP Foundation. The information presented is for general, educational, or entertainment purposes and should not be considered legal, health, financial, or other advice. \u003c/p\u003e"]}}],"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThis item is protected by U.S. copyright and related rights. It is being made available by the Center for the History of Family Medicine as its rights-holder for noncommercial use, including sharing and adapting the work. No permission is required for noncommercial use so long as attribution is provided. All other uses require permission from the Center for the History of Family Medicine. \u0026nbsp;Disclaimer: \u0026nbsp;The views presented in this broadcast are the speaker\u0026rsquo;s own and do not represent those of CHFM or the AAFP Foundation. The information presented is for general, educational, or entertainment purposes and should not be considered legal, health, financial, or other advice.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Center for the History of Family Medicine"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Center for the History of Family Medicine"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/246/original/CenterForHistoryFamilyMedicine_2c_RGB.png?1773344256","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 2 - Go_Henry_1989.03.28_-_Side_1.mp3"]},"duration":1864.736,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/277/817/original/Go_Henry_1989.03.28_-_Side_1.mp3?1750276090","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":1864.736,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Dr. Henry Go interview transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"John F Frey III, MD: Conversation with Henry Go, 27 March, 1989.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: What I'm trying to do is I'm keeping records of conversations that I'm beginning to have with people who are practicing in communities. On the phone I told you this kind of working title for this whole thing is what I'm calling Taking Care of Neighbors, which is what I'm interested in doing is looking at the relationships that physicians have with communities that they live in, which is different than ... I mean I started out with this whole sense that all the residents nowadays in the program are looking for their personal life and their professional life to be as kind of nicely packaged separate, I call it a commuter mentality.\n\nHenry Go, MD: You're also assuming that America still has a sense of community.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: You're right. You sense that [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=0.0,68.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] Chapel Hill?\n\nHenry Go, MD: Well, I don't know. The whole state is aggregated in their communities, but that's not true at all of America. We have huge metropolitan areas that have their different kind of communities, little neighborhood type things.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: You know my brother in the Bronx, I mean part of this ... okay the story of this was that my brother, my youngest brother lives in the Bronx, he lives in an Irish section of the Bronx. It's a very tight, very Irish.\n\nHenry Go, MD: Still?\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Oh yeah, he married an Irish woman who had not lived outside of that geographic area in her entire life. And the first time she ever went outside of New York City [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=68.0,110.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. Well it was interesting, but what they did was they're building in his area, even in the old Irish section with all these old homes that are somewhat, I mean a lot older than they should be in a lot of ways, they haven't kept up. And all of a sudden the houses are starting to get bought, they're starting to clear empty lots and-\n\nHenry Go, MD: Gentrification.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Gentrification, even of working-class, blue-collar, Irish Bronx. In this neighborhood, they put up this three-story building, in a vacant lot that's been there as long as I've known it. I said, \"What the hell's that?\" He said, \"It's going to be apartment buildings on the second and third floor, but what they want on the first floor is a doctor's office.\" And I said, \"Really?\" He said, \"Oh yeah, there used to be Irish doctors that would live down the street and work here.\" So there are a few of those people left, not many, but there are urban ...\n\nHenry Go, MD: Even people who still have that yearn for a neighborhood doctors, or neighborhood doctors that would go back to the neighborhood?\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Well I don't know, but what I got to find, and what I'm trying to find, I mean there's a lot of health services research that's looking at why people choose to go into particularly rural areas. What are the factors that make medical students choose to go to rural areas, or the other thing I'm looking at is why do people leave rural areas?\n\nHenry Go, MD: You mean they're still studying that?\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Oh, sure. I mean-\n\nHenry Go, MD: They've been studying that for 20 years.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: I think it's because it still remains a kind of something that they're questioning themselves about because they haven't been able to [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=110.0,199.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] or they haven't been able to [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=199.0,201.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] otherwise it wouldn't be a question, right?\n\nHenry Go, MD: Right.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: And otherwise legislators and people like that wouldn't say, \"What the hell have you guys been doing?\" But the thing that I want to do, is I want to talk to people, and this isn't a study for medicine, it's something that I want to do-\n\nHenry Go, MD: A social phenomena.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: I want to describe, and I want to document the qualities and the nature of the relationship between physicians and communities where this relationship still exists, and the nature of it is it has to involve the current complexity in the relationship. In other words, where it came up, the reason I call it Taking Care of Neighbors, I was over in what's it called [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=201.0,241.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] shit.\n\nHenry Go, MD: Woodland?\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Woodland today, Benji and I went over to see our previous [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=241.0,250.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] 45-year-old next door neighbors in Chapel Hill, for the first eight years we lived there, who moved to Woodland to be near their daughter who lives in Davis. And one of the things that was interesting was that they were the only couple, they were the only people in the entire neighborhood who after the first eight years that we lived there weren't my patients. Everybody in the neighborhood, and it's an old neighborhood, lots of older people, so they don't move very quickly, came up to me over a period of time and said, \"My doctor's getting older, would you be my doctor?\" Or, \"I need to have access to the hospital in case I get sick, and my doctor doesn't go to the hospital. Would you be my doctor?\"\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: First reaction is well, wait a minute let's keep this sorted out. And then I thought wait a minute, the whole idea of being a family doctor is to, at least in my mind, to be willing to get into fairly open-ended, complex relationships with people and not say, \"I don't have a sign on my office that says practice limited to people who are not my friends, people who I don't know personally, people who are not my neighbors.\" I said, \"My practice is unlimited, and it is just to take care of who I take care of.\" So I didn't solicit them, but they kind of came to me. So here I am taking care of people in my neighborhood, and I began to write down what all the problems were of them, neighbors and I'd see them on the street and they'd wave and say, \"Hey my cataract,\" and do all this kind of stuff.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: And kids, and all [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=250.0,341.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. I mean what I have read about it in a couple of very nice articles are the dilemmas of the small town doctor were my dilemmas, which questions of confidentiality, questions of treating everybody equal in the sense of do you give people who are your neighbors easier access? Do they sometimes not bother you because I'll go away for a week and I'll come home and they say, \"Well gee I'm glad you're home, I've had this thing for three days.\" And I'm thinking, \"What?\" They don't treat me like they treat their doctor in a lot of ways.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: So this kind of stirred things up, and so what I've been saying is instead of figuring out mechanisms whereby we can get physicians to tightly package their lives into professional between 9:00 and 5:00. And at home if I'm on call, I don't know these people. What I realized I needed to do was I needed to study by talking to physicians who had lived in that relationship for a long time and not look-\n\nHenry Go, MD: You can't figure it out from your own-\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Well I can, but I want to validate it. I can tell you my story, but I don't want to hear my story, but mine's not as rich as yours.\n\nHenry Go, MD: You want to validate it because you're not sure whether it's just because of your interest as kind of a social phenomena because most of the time your head was over in academia. At night, you'd have these community obligations with your neighbors. You have a sense of community obligation, a sense of duty.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Well it was a sense of-\n\nHenry Go, MD: A sense of duty that you couldn't quite sort out with your mind because you're halfway in academia, and the rest of you is out there?\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: That's right, and also I'm not a doctor that's locked up in the University Hospital. I mean out in a different kind of place. I don't know, I mean does that sound-\n\nHenry Go, MD: I'll tell you [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=341.0,443.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] the other day, he's the guy I think he wrote these articles about [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=443.0,450.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] and he's an anti-gun, he's wrote a lot of articles about handguns [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=450.0,455.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. And [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=455.0,463.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] was telling me how their clinic's becoming a broader spectrum of the demographics of the patients they're getting. And I said, \"How do you mean?\" He said well they're getting more middle-class people who have insurance, a lot of the employees here at the hospital come here. I says, \"What does that mean?\" I says, \"You guys are inmates taking care of inmates.\"\n\nHenry Go, MD: They go up to [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=463.0,487.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] you guys go elsewhere, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=487.0,489.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] he kind of saw that. I pointed out to him that the residents as they're coming out, they're unable to do community medicine, they're unable to do HMO medicine, which is gobbling up 90% of the residents. It's a drop in their bucket to put out 10 residents a year. I forget what our annual production is [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=489.0,519.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. Kaiser will swallow them up, and the local HMO down here [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=519.0,526.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] the whole entire system of what's out there. A lot of times the guys come through the office, and they're third-year residents. It's a real eye-opener to take on their own to figure things out, no multiple layers of consulting.\n\nHenry Go, MD: At the University there's so many people [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=526.0,551.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] specialty that are kind of badgering them [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=551.0,552.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] developmentally rich experience as if they were in a smaller hospital. So, for awhile they developed satellite programs, you know like yours [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=552.0,575.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] so that they had choice. But they had to choose, the first year was at the big medical center-\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=575.0,581.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] used to have, right? They used to call it one and two program where the first year was in Sacramento, and the last two years were someplace outside?\n\nHenry Go, MD: Yeah, and then the outside places have developed enough stature and standing where they can be a three-year [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=581.0,597.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: When you tell the senior residents to come to your office, do you ever sit down with them and say, \"These are some of the issues about being in a community like this,\" that you hadn't thought about, I hadn't, you hadn't thought about until you got there. And if so, what do you tell them?\n\nHenry Go, MD: Well, I don't think we've ever talked about, and examining this one aspect is something that I haven't exchanged ideas with anybody before, because it's something that I have seen come on myself. Because the issues that come up in the office are ultimately life and death issues, the way that one family will [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=597.0,651.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] the terror of death, the specter of [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=651.0,660.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] one person. It's hard to switch between being a friend and a doctor, a community neighbor and a doctor.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: What's hard about that?\n\nHenry Go, MD: It's hard.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: What's hard?\n\nHenry Go, MD: Well, because it has to do with of course normal. You just can't examine how the doctors can relate to neighbors. You have to look at what neighbors are to each other first, right? What do you share with neighbors? We're social animals. Did you [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=660.0,695.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] about human nature by Wilson? And then there's another book by [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=695.0,704.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] examines altruism, being social, being in relationships. A couple of interesting books that have to do with what are the driving forces, and what is human nature? What are things like altruism, when you put yourself out to help others. Some of it is destructive, you know? All the congressional [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=704.0,737.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] winners were guys that threw themselves on grenades. [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=737.0,745.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. Yeah, sacrifice, you know? And it's probably seen in ... the Wilson guy saw this in other orders of animals and things like that in the area of biologic behavior as seen in men, or society.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: You were saying before we started talking about how I'm making some assumptions about a sense of community still exists, right? I mean [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=745.0,775.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]-\n\nHenry Go, MD: Yeah, that's one of the generic issues of human nature I think that he is a societal animal, but itself causes problems. The critical mass of too many people [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=775.0,793.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] we need space, yet why was that a problem if you weren't a social animal to begin with? You know, there's all these kind of balances.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: I mean it appears to me that one of the things that some people could probably [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=793.0,817.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. Well one of the issues about when you say it's difficult to be a doctor in a neighborhood, I mean that's really what I want to ... I don't know how to get to the heart of that situation. And I need to find out something about why that's hard. On the other hand, it's like this kid who said to me 10, 15 years ago when I first started teaching, a theoretical student came through [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=817.0,838.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] from Fall River, Massachusetts and I said, \"What do you want to do with your life?\" And he said, \"I want to get my GP training, and I want to be a family doc, and I want to go back and practice in Fall River.\"\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: This was me talking to him, which who at age 18 said, \"So long.\" And headed out the door, and I haven't been back anywhere near living in my hometown since that time. And I said, \"Why would you want to do that?\" And he looks me in the eye, I'll never forget this, he looks at me and he says, \"Isn't that what you've been telling me for all these years? Isn't that what you're saying that the most important thing is to know something about people in order to be able to take care of them? And I know about these people, I grew up with them, I know about them, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=838.0,878.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\" He said, \"I got 20 years on a person who wants to go down there and try and start from scratch.\" I thought, \"Shit, that's a good argument.\" And so part of it is this whole sense of why not?\n\nHenry Go, MD: Well yeah, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=878.0,894.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] usual operative pragmatic kind of things that make either good or bad for a doctor that goes back to his community. If he was from that community, then they wonder a matter of professional trust. We have patients that fly to Mayo Clinic for their periodic exam. And then they'll come and trust John Frey, or me for their day-to-day routine. Familiarity, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=894.0,933.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] either hindered or helped within the context of facing new disease process, you know? We often trust strangers more than we trust neighbors.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: No, you're right, it's like talking to-\n\nHenry Go, MD: It's sort of biblical you know? It's like watching the people on Greyhound buses is easier to do than talking [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=933.0,956.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Yeah. Kind of [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=956.0,963.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] the doctor himself seems to live [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=963.0,971.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] not as a neighbor, but as a doctor neighbor, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=971.0,976.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] the dual [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=976.0,979.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. Do you ever put that down [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=979.0,984.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] do you feel like you've been put down the doctor neighbor part of it, and just be a citizen?\n\nHenry Go, MD: In the 30 years living in a small town, there are about one or two families that I pray bridge with, pinochle with, grew up, we have [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=984.0,1006.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] parties together, dance together with who are able to maintain a secular, or a compartmented type of relationship. So that when they're at the office, they're patients. When we're at their house, we're social type neighbors. The two don't always fit together, it's not a fluid interchange between the different kind of roles that people play. You've heard of roles that patients play, right? That role that patients assume, help me, I am in need of your help. The passivity of certain patients, feeling ... kind of regression in the whole scale of their social development. Remember that?\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Yeah.\n\nHenry Go, MD: Vaguely, I don't know exactly what the different, but there's a whole list of things that the patients ... and then on the other hand the doctor falls into the role of being somewhat [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1006.0,1078.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] a helper, and in more recent years we shall help guide you through this maze of medical.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Traffic cop.\n\nHenry Go, MD: Traffic cop, we will together go through this whole experience, you know? But then when you talk about the doctor and his neighborhood experience, it's a little ... there's two different sets of behavior patterns are not always [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1078.0,1114.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. What am I trying to say? [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1114.0,1119.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] because all day you're over there writing papers, and you're contact with meaningful human relationship medicine was with your relations with your neighbors.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: And they're a subset of my patients, my patients come from all over the area-\n\nHenry Go, MD: But they're the ones that kept you alive as a doctor.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Right, all of my patients.\n\nHenry Go, MD: They were human beings relating to a doctor, they weren't inmates going to the infirmary.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: No, they weren't. But when you say about inmates, the thing ... I mean your town, people that are your patients are close enough to other towns so that if they wanted to they could go some place else [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1119.0,1166.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]-\n\nHenry Go, MD: Choice remains a major part of the confidence people place in a system. They go, and since they chose they have faith to remain in a bonding situation with their caregiver.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Do you think there's any particular characteristics of the people who live in the community who have chosen to go some place else for their medical care in contrast to the folks who have chosen to stay with you? Is there anything you could think of?\n\nHenry Go, MD: Well, you kind of have to think about whether there is a rural and what is a rural and an urban mind, you know? [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1166.0,1214.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] the university the higher center of learning, all these powerful institutions, when people are threatened they go to the big center. They have an inclination, \"Hey, I'm going to go to the cathedral this time around.\" [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1214.0,1235.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] this sort of thing, there's that. I'm sure there's conflict between loyalty to the hometown guy who is my neighbor, we share barbecue parties, but when something's really bad they don't want to do that.\n\nHenry Go, MD: On the other hand, the way the marketplace is, now this is the last five or 10 years, nobody has a choice in anything. More and more doctors are saying, \"Listen,\" the patient comes in, they say, \"Listen, I'm coming to you because your name is on the list.\" They don't purchase their care anymore, when we get to ... I don't know there's a change in the last 20, 30 years where somehow the employer became the obligatory purchaser or the medical care. I mean that came in slowly. Then the next thing that happened is when the care costs went up, we had a bunch of middle men who said, \"Hey here's what these needy people who employers have to purchase medical care for. We shall list them all up, then find people who will deliver the care to these people and save that employer money.\"\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: It's a different kind of contract. I mean it's a contract for strictly a cost of service rather than the quality of the relationship and all that. I mean part of the problem is that what I see going on a lot, I've had a whole bunch of patients, this year's the first time in my entire practicing lifetime because of a whole bunch of changes in the state system and people employed by different groups have had their insurance moved, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1235.0,1342.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] care out there, and HMO, this and that were out there. And people would call me and say, \"I got to go to Kaiser.\" Kaiser's the biggest thing right now for us.\n\nHenry Go, MD: They still came to you at Magford for advice though I'm sure.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Well, they call me up and that's an interesting thing, they'll call me up and have me over to dinner or something, and then kind of test out ... I say that I'm a primary doctor for a lot of people in my neighborhood are friends of mine. I'm a second opinion doctor, an unofficial second opinion doctor for a lot of people, my family. I mean they'll call and say, \"Saw the doctor, this is what he said. What do you think?\" And in most cases I'll say, \"It's fine, it's fine.\" But they check it out, it's important they have that. And a lot of patients who used to be patients of mine as a primary doctor, are now using me as a second opinion because they have to go someplace else because the nature of cost. I mean they got families, 150 bucks a month less.\n\nHenry Go, MD: But you look at it, this is a rule of a contemporary neighborhood doc. Not caring for them, but help guide them through the care that they have to get through the clinic system.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: But part of this, I mean I have had this ... one of the things I struggle with is to say to myself leaving this change aside, which I mean drives me bonkers, and I don't see any real solution to the whole situation until we get to the point where there's a rational organized health system as opposed to [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1342.0,1438.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] but that's a different discussion. But I think something like that's going to come, and a major question is whether we can manage it in the way that we need. I've been trying to write this editorial for the Journal for three or four months and I haven't been able to do it right, and part of it has to do with saying if we want the system to look like we believe it should, i.e.-\n\nHenry Go, MD: New England Journal just came out with that [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1438.0,1461.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]-\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Well no, I was one of the supporters of that-\n\nHenry Go, MD: Of that article?\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1461.0,1467.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] that was pretty benign stuff, nothing radical about that at all. But family doctors want to take the lead in this whole thing and say, \"This is the way a system should work to meet our needs.\" Not necessarily our financial needs, I mean they'll give them that. But the big question is our needs for trust, for the kind of relationship that we believe is therapeutic for them and for us, for the nature of the use of the system that's most appropriate so that you don't go running off to the big house for every sprained ankle. I mean there's all sorts of things about that that make sense from our point. So if we wanted the system to make sense, this is the characteristics of what we have to structure the system to look like. I mean I haven't been able to write that yet. Believing all of this-\n\nHenry Go, MD: I think that it has to do with a belief system where the primary doctor has validity.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Yes. Validity and responsibility [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1467.0,1524.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]-\n\nHenry Go, MD: And that he believes in himself. That he grows up in a system of learning where he believes what he does is valid. That will show in his work.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Right.\n\nHenry Go, MD: People seeing that in their work will develop a sense of trust in the decision making process of that person. \"Yes, Mrs. Brown, I can take care of that. No, Mrs. Brown, I can't do that. This is a little bit more complicated, let's get someone else to take a look at this. I can't figure it out.\" Or, \"Mrs. Brown, I still can't figure it out, but you live right down the street, we have time, come back in a week. I'm going to think about this, let's see what this test shows, or what that test shows.\" And then you do that. I think if you do that honestly for [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1524.0,1582.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] problem that first of all when you send the patient to a consultant you're seen as a valid person on the consultant side too because I can't figure this out, go see [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1582.0,1596.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: And he says, \"That was a good diagnosis, or that was a good call.\"\n\nHenry Go, MD: You're on the right track. Or he'll say, \"I can't figure it out either,\" which is about 90% of the time. This sort of thing. I think that a system of trust is based on perception of validity of the doctor.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: But do you think that ... again, do you think that the trust that people have in you, you personally, as a physician comes about partly because they know you as a person, they know you as a physician neighbor, does that have anything to do with it?\n\nHenry Go, MD: No, they know me because [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1596.0,1636.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] recognize qualities that they perceive in their frame of reference like simple [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1636.0,1647.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] that they know they use to judge other people. Perhaps a sense of honesty, tenacity, sticking to something, listening to what they say. Which is what first year medical students. The patient will tell you what's wrong [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1647.0,1667.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: So, it's based on good judgment about who's a good doctor?\n\nHenry Go, MD: Yeah, on their own [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1667.0,1674.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Do you think that, I mean the reason ... I've been thinking about this whole area, and one of the things that crosses my mind is that it's easier at some level to take care of my neighbors. I mean it's more demanding to take care of my neighbors because-\n\nHenry Go, MD: Especially with [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1674.0,1697.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: But I say, \"Well between you and me I really think that,\" and I've had a couple of folks that worry, and worry, and worry. And I say, \"There isn't anything there.\" They get me worried, so I tend to overuse consultants because I think maybe I'm not being objective. All those kinds of things.\n\nHenry Go, MD: These are exactly the same things.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: But the flip side of that is-\n\nHenry Go, MD: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1697.0,1718.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] help thy neighbor, not kill them.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Exactly right. [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1718.0,1724.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nHenry Go, MD: When Jesus went back to Nazareth they threw him out of town because he wasn't working the miracles that they'd heard him work. You did it for those guys, why don't you do it for us? Yeah, why don't you do it for us? [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1724.0,1738.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] small town doctor, I mean he came back from the big university and everything, and yet all these things we read about [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1738.0,1747.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] how come he can't do for us-\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1747.0,1748.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] I mean they're hearing about new things generally before I do because the newspapers will report them out before the journals do, and even if the journals report them out I have to say, \"Look it isn't quite as simple as that.\" Part of me, I've gotten more comfortable after this initial period of anxiety, well maybe this is too complicated, is that what I found that my neighbors do is that they particularly analyze [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1748.0,1776.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] for obvious reasons is they see me as somebody who even though I have responsibilities that are different, even though I have a status and a role in even my neighborhood that's different than I would be if I would have been a professor of English like my next door neighbor. They see me also as being a human being who suffers, and who has difficulties in his life, and who has to cut his lawn, has kids to raise. I mean there's a certain kind of recognition to me as a human being that I have a sense ... now whether this is true or not, I don't know, but I have a sense that they're willing to forgive me a little bit more easily for things than the patients who only see me as this guy who occupies this office that they come to, or who are trapped [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1776.0,1825.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nHenry Go, MD: How do they feel when you fail them?\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: I don't know. I mean I'd probably have to ask them that. I feel worse when I fail my neighbors, because they are people who are more ... I feel bad when I fail anybody, but particularly people I know well because I feel like there's a different way of letting them down than just people I don't know. On the other hand, I think they understand. I'm trying to think of specifics-\n\nHenry Go, MD: You're projecting from your thoughts.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: No, well I'm also the one I'm thinking of is one of my neighbors is an-\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: What's the difference between food and healthcare? I mean, it's different being the only short order house in town. Maybe it's not as different. I mean, don't you think there's a ... I read about people who, I don't know, cut corners. What's the term I'm looking for? In a sense, they get lazy, if you're the only person in town, on some level. See part of it, that would drive me to work harder, at least that's my instinct. But when you are the sole source then what ... I mean that kind of thinking I need to learn from my English professor.\n\nHenry Go, MD: Yeah I think that ... Yeah that's what the English professor would say. Or the local pastor would say. This is not a problem, it's an opportunity, it's a challenge.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: It's a learning experience right?\n\nHenry Go, MD: Yeah. The challenge of caring for people, it [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=1825.0,3669.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] more now that you're the sole source practitioner in the area. You could see it that way. Do you rise to the challenge of taking care of people in a comprehensive fashion? Do you cut corners?\n\nHenry Go, MD: This goes through my mind, too. And so that, when people promulgate rules of healthcare, you sit there as a sole practitioner and decision maker as to apply public health type of guidelines to your individual practice. I guess all women over 40 should have a first mam, all men over 50 should have their first blanks. All men or women over 40 who job should have a treadmill, even if they have no symptoms and then any class twos should be with a little abnormality should be [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=3669.0,3727.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nHenry Go, MD: Now we've developed another layer of investigation that says we can also do viral typing [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=3727.0,3738.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. Only laser. Laser thing because the [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=3738.0,3745.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] are out and then he does ...\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Well that's the other thing. It's funny. You make resource allocation decisions for your community.\n\nHenry Go, MD: Yes. I guess we do based on their income.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Well, no. [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=3745.0,3761.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] all women over whatever. You set a criteria which have to do with resource allocation. I don't mean you have the budget for the community but you make the decisions.\n\nHenry Go, MD: As to what you recommend for them and see what they would select off your menu that you recommend.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Yeah. But no one, I suspect, the people you take care of and I take care of, I may recommend it but they're sure as hell not going to turn it down. They're not going to challenge it a lot. I mean occasionally people say, \"Do I really have to have that done?\" I say, \"Well, here's the risks, here are the benefits.\" But in general, that's not the way I operate.\n\nHenry Go, MD: You must have a more homogeneous population that understands all this. We have people who are first generation, third world country.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: So how do you deal with them around those kind of recommendations?\n\nHenry Go, MD: It's difficult. I haven't worked it out yet because you have to be I mean kind of schizophrenic. One person over 50 and I recommend this, the next person over 50 you don't recommend it.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: But you individualize it. I mean you individualize your recommendations.\n\nHenry Go, MD: Oh, yeah. According to their social ethnic belief system but it has to fit in their social ethnic belief system, first of all, and economic probably.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: See, but you're the only kind of person that can do that because the internist and the pediatricians, all those people live [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=3761.0,3850.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] and the way that they protect themselves against ... I guess making their lives easier is saying all this should have that. And I mean I challenge the residents all the time when they say, \"All people over blank should have blank.\" I say, \"Well, all people are not alike.\" All people have different needs. Some people need this more than others. Other people don't need it and so on. Your job is to discriminate, in a sense, between who needs it and who doesn't. Who needs it more and who needs it less and all that kind of stuff. But that's too much work for them.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: To me, that's the fun part. Why would you ... A computer can apply a protocol. You can punch in your age, punch in your whatever and it'll say you need these three things, go to the lab, get them done, you don't have to see me. I was going to say something about the resource allocation.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: I mean what do you do, in a sense, to give yourself a place where you don't have to be a physician. Do you have ways of doing that? Do you and your family have rules. Not rules. That's a little harsh but how do you do that?\n\nHenry Go, MD: Oh, I don't bring my work home. I used to do that. I read journals at the office not at home. Some of the lighter stuff I bring home [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=3850.0,3940.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. I don't know. Everybody has their own ... I don't know how I do it. Right now, the family obligation part is relatively low because I have no more [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=3940.0,3952.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. My wife. I do my thing. I work, sleep, and eat and I enjoy that. At least that's what I'm doing.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: When the kids were home [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=3952.0,3960.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nHenry Go, MD: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=3960.0,3963.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: It's not far. Six years. It ain't far. It's an interesting time. I mean if you were ... Okay.\n\nHenry Go, MD: I'm sorry. Go ahead.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: If you're in a situation where ... What I want to do is I want to talk to people who are doing what you're doing. What kinds of questions would you need? What should I be asking, I guess? What should I be looking at?\n\nHenry Go, MD: I have said [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=3963.0,4005.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] useful. A lot of times I say, \"Look, my origins are out in the farmlands here. I was a farm worker before I was a doctor.\" I don't know what your problems are. Look, you go this problem and I'm a doctor now and you're going to do what I tell you so that you have gained their confidence because you're a member of the community that dates back to before you were a doctor and all this sort of thing. So then you have to be able to say also, \"Look, I'm talking to you as a doctor. This is what the situation is.\"\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: So you think you're more effective because of that kind of or as good?\n\nHenry Go, MD: Don't worry about it. When you say don't worry about it it's trust me. I know what I'm saying. We say I know what I'm saying, you better believe that you know what you're saying or you're not going to be able to sleep at night. You see what I mean.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Oh, I know.\n\nHenry Go, MD: This sort of thing, these different layers, belief, trust. I guess these are the generic things that people who are in a close community relate with each other. They're stereotyping you. You stereotyping them, you knowing where they came from and they knowing where you came from.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: They know a lot more about you than they would know about me if I lived in Davis or someplace and came down river and practiced there.\n\nHenry Go, MD: I wonder if that's good or bad.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: I don't know. That's what I've got to find out. I mean-\n\nHenry Go, MD: Good and bad.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: What are the good parts to them knowing more about you than me?\n\nHenry Go, MD: Facing illness has a lot of rhetorical exchange. Rhetorical exchange is based on one person knowing the other or knowing what they say. When somebody says something, what it means has something to do with your knowing that person. I think this is where if a community knows you. But then a community may know you merely because you occupy a certain office at Chapel Hill and you've been there for 20 years and you, in a sense, in the urban setting become part of their human social community. There's only one doctor in their community, you. See?\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Right.\n\nHenry Go, MD: So I think that in the urban settings we can have community.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: I mean I think you can. I think it's difficult ... I think actually the irony is the two places that there are strong senses of community anymore are very large cities and very small towns. Suburbs have never had that sense. I mean I grew up in a suburb. I mean that's like Carmichael. I was driving around [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4005.0,4203.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] and I was saying, \"Look at this place.\" [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4203.0,4205.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] the great thing is he says when he was in Spain, he went to Spain for a summer and he spent five weeks in not a big city but an average size city, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4205.0,4218.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"], Spain.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: He said, \"This family I stay with, they live in an apartment.\" He said, \"I went home every day and I lived in an apartment.\" He said, \"Gee, that seems like it was terrible to live in an apartment.\" He said, \"But then I got kind of used to it and I realized an apartment could be just like a house.\" He says, \"I look around this place,\" we were talking about the place where I grew up, too, which is a suburb of Milwaukee. He says, \"Those all look like houses but they feel like apartments.\"\n\nHenry Go, MD: Yeah.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: And I thought it's absolutely true and there's no-\n\nHenry Go, MD: I've written about this social phenomena of neighborhood in suburbia.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: I haven't read much about suburbia.\n\nHenry Go, MD: It's just what you just said. There is no sense of community.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Ironically [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4218.0,4262.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nHenry Go, MD: [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4262.0,4262.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] or a burglar.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4262.0,4265.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] people get together in a snowstorm and it's really true. [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4265.0,4266.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] so you can't relate to my snow stories. But that's where I partly want to look at small towns and I want to look at big cities. Big cities are going to be tougher because there aren't that many people doing ... You remember. I mean not all that long ago, especially in ethnic communities in big cities there'll always be the Spanish doctor for the Spanish community and the Hungarian doctor for the Hungarian community. I mean there was very much of an ethnic link up there, which is very interesting. I had never noticed that until I started looking around and I saw all these doctors' offices in a neighborhood that used to be Czech. They were Czech doctors but in a Spanish neighborhood.\n\nHenry Go, MD: Yeah. [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4266.0,4306.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] it looks like a house. It's hard to discern it as an office. Yeah.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: So I kept thinking why would people do that. Part of it is they did it because that was the only place they could practice because they weren't accepted by the larger kind of non-ethnic community. The other side of that is what happens in that is it's been described a fair amount is that immigrant communities tend to become more tightly knit in another country than they tend to be at home.\n\nHenry Go, MD: Say it again.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: I was talking about ... What was it in relation to? San Diego, there was a funny Russian community in San Diego. There's this neighborhood of all Russian.\n\nHenry Go, MD: [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4306.0,4355.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] the old country.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: I said, \"That seems odd that they come to this country [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4355.0,4361.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\" The guy I was talking to was a political science person. He said, \"That's not odd at all.\" He said, \"That happens to all immigrant groups that they go and they kind of ghettoize, partly out of being kind of redlined in by the dominant ...\" But the other part of that is that there's a choice to be ... In a sense, you have some familiarity in this strange land that doesn't make much sense and it's only the next generation of kids who kind of wander out from it. But there's a very strong feel. Generational progression they call it or regression depending on.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: So part of, I think, in urban areas the ethnic [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4361.0,4398.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] is because-\n\nHenry Go, MD: [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4398.0,4400.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] family compound.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: And for her, this is partly ... She likes it. She's real comfortable and I've talked to her about does that seem to be-\n\nHenry Go, MD: [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4400.0,4416.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] I went back to [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4416.0,4417.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] last September.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Really?\n\nHenry Go, MD: Yeah. Cortland, Main Street, all of America in fact, if you look at small [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4417.0,4428.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] there a main street, side street. You drive through in the Midwest there's a lot of towns like Cortland.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Absolutely.\n\nHenry Go, MD: It's probably disappearing but back in China the villages are setup the same way. Main street, side street, cross streets [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4428.0,4445.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] perspective.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: What do the doctors do there?\n\nHenry Go, MD: I peaked in [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4445.0,4452.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] all the guy had was a blood pressure cuff and a stethoscope and a little dispensary out in front. It cost $1 American I think.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: To see him?\n\nHenry Go, MD: Yeah.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Did you go in?\n\nHenry Go, MD: No. I didn't want to disturb their ... But they have dispensaries of medical care under the communist system in the village. The main hospital, the one hospital in two was 300-400 beds, I think, and about [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4452.0,4486.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] they had one 300 [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4486.0,4489.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] machine, x-ray, no CT, no IVs except [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4489.0,4497.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] with the rubber tubes. The [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4497.0,4499.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] needles. No disposable [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4499.0,4504.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] caths or quick caths or like that.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Well, I traveled a lot in Latin America for a period of about five years. They have this system, at least people know where the deficiencies are in the system. At least they sit down and say, \"Well, we don't have enough X for the region of Santiago south of such and such.\" I mean they have a sense of what they don't have and what they need because at least they have data. What is ... Wherever we are, North central California need? I don't think they'd be able to say that.\n\nHenry Go, MD: Your study of this but the physician neighbor is probably a study of a group that in numbers is dying off.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: I agree. We're becoming employees.\n\nHenry Go, MD: Yeah. If not employees, a member of a group that's three to five doctors in small towns. One doctor towns are disappearing because it's too tough.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: What's the toughest part?\n\nHenry Go, MD: One doctor towns?\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Yeah.\n\nHenry Go, MD: [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4504.0,4591.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] I guess that's hard. Being a full-time doctor 24 hours a day is hard. Loss of family contact time. The family has come back as an important unit to the value system of young people, rightly so, right?\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Yeah.\n\nHenry Go, MD: No more of this 40s and 50-ish altruistic [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4591.0,4620.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] doctors. Remember those days?\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Oh, yeah.\n\nHenry Go, MD: Have you heard about those days?\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Did you grow up [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4620.0,4629.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. I mean I remember the guy down the street, the only doctor in my life in terms of anybody that was familiar on a regular basis was one of my good friend's father. Nine kid. Catholic family, nine kids, mother was from ... Even from the time I was young I knew enough to know what an alcoholic was and she was one. Really troubled and this guy was just a solo practitioner and he just retired about three or four years ago from solo practice wondering why somebody wouldn't come in and take over his practice. I don't think anybody ... That was an extreme example, I think, of what ... How do you tend to nine kids, period? Much less tend to nine kids, do a general practice, deliver babies, do all that kind of stuff?\n\nHenry Go, MD: Part of your study involves the study of a segment of the societal picture of a nostalgic remembrance of how things were.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Probably.\n\nHenry Go, MD: Because when you talk about the one-doctor towns ... We talked about the one-doctor towns and one doctor in the county. Do remember the feds listed all these counties in America that had no doctor? We went to that in the '50s I think and the '60s. [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4629.0,4714.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] but we're [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4714.0,4715.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] a lot of things. We don't make [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4715.0,4717.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] but we want a doctor in a small town. It's part of our almost national belief, birth rite that we should have a doctor in a small town, but the doctor is a highly trained person now. They go through a long, lengthy training in an urban setting where you're used to being surrounded by CT scanners, MRI scanners, consultants.\n\nHenry Go, MD: He's given all these parameters he has to fill that he has to be immunizer of children, caretaker of the safety of infants, nutrition of mothers, the burden of having not too many low birth weight children.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Right. [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4717.0,4771.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nHenry Go, MD: One of the major indices of national health [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4771.0,4778.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] premature birth.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: General infant mortality.\n\nHenry Go, MD: What?\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Infant mortality.\n\nHenry Go, MD: A lot of time, which is premature birth, right.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: For [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4778.0,4789.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] and then what else?\n\nHenry Go, MD: Infant mortality, longevity.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Longevity, right. The rates of preventable illness, hypertension, heart disease.\n\nHenry Go, MD: And the lifestyle is the thing. I mean we can eat ourselves out of this.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: And if you get sick it's your fault.\n\nHenry Go, MD: Right. [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4789.0,4811.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: No. No. That's what the doctors are turning it around. They're saying, \"It's your fault.\" You don't exercise. You do all ... It's like people saying, \"If you smoke, I'm sorry I don't want you in my practice because you're a high risk individual.\" People are starting to screen out high-risk practice and take care of only people who are already healthy.\n\nHenry Go, MD: That sounds like an HMO. The latest thing is that we spend hours and hours lately at the office saying, \"Mrs. Brown, you have to eat more Metamucil, oat bran, dry beans and avoid dairy products, a lot of cheese, yogurt, and all this.\"\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4811.0,4849.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]?\n\nHenry Go, MD: Yeah. Because of cholesterol. And they say, \"What's my cholesterol?\" I say, \"Well, it's 260 or 270.\" They say, \"That's pretty high.\" They say, \"What's normal?\" You say, \"200.\" They say, \"Well, what was it five years ago?\" This is a problem with being the hometown doctor person the past 20 years. \"Well, Mrs. Brown, I'm sorry but your cholesterol was 270 five years ago, too, but it was normal then.\"\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: It hasn't changed [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4849.0,4889.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nHenry Go, MD: Look here, five pages back, which is only about the top quarter inch of their chart. There's worse below that. You say, \"Look, five years ago it was 300. See the marks on the shaded area.\" [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4889.0,4911.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: I don't know. I mean I don't think people are willing to blame ... I don't know. My sense is that if they know you they're not going to blame you as much as if you're a stranger. If you're a stranger who tells them things that they don't want to hear there's a lot of anger. If you're somebody who's a friend or somebody who they know who tells them what they don't want to hear they're [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4911.0,4930.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] listen to you. I mean you were saying that before.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: You can use your authority. You can use your longevity. You can use your continuity in a way that makes you a better doctor.\n\nHenry Go, MD: I thought of that. But murders occur amongst people that know each other well.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Most of the time.\n\nHenry Go, MD: Where do love / hate relationships start? With people you know well. So I'm not sure. For as intense their love of you is [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4930.0,4965.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] you're being there all this time that they've needed you the last 10 years we still have this human behavioral thing of what have you done for me lately and did you screw up on this last. So you could say this to yourself, too.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Right.\n\nHenry Go, MD: But it's not a thought which is inherent to [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4965.0,4989.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. So intensity of feeling can go both ways. It's easy to say you live in a community, you're their friend, their neighbor, they love you. But then there's the other side of human behavior. What have you done for me lately, Doc?\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: And because you're the guy who lives next door and they say that that puts a kind of pressure on you that you don't get if the guy lives down the street and you don't have to see him the next day.\n\nHenry Go, MD: Yeah. And then John probably just bought a Mercedes Benz 300, $44,000 car this sort of thing. Appearances and ...\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: I don't know. I don't know what I'm going to find.\n\nHenry Go, MD: Where are you going to find these subjects?\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Well, I'm going to study some people ... It's not scientific by the medical standards. I'm not going through the AMA list of doctors in small towns and randomly selecting. I mean I'm looking for people with good stories.\n\nHenry Go, MD: Up in Pennsylvania there's a lot.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: The mountains of North Carolina is full of people.\n\nHenry Go, MD: Is that the tail end of the Alleghanys? What's that's string? Is that Alleghany?\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: No, the Appalachian. The Alleghanys are up in Pennsylvania but the Blue Ridge and the Smokies. [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=4989.0,5082.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] they call them different names as they come down. So they're the Green Mountains, the White Mountains of Vermont and New Hampshire. The Berkshires in Massachusets and the Adorandaks and the Alleghany and Blue Ridge. So it's all that chain. I forget what they call them in Georgia. They're called The Hills in Georgia. So [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=5082.0,5105.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] out there.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: I'm going to take a photographer with me. We're going to take photographs. I'm going to talk to people. I'm going to go into [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=5105.0,5120.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] Waynesville, North Carolina and sit down and say, \"Can you tell me what it's like living in the town with the doctors that are here?\" I'm going to do it all anonymously. I'm not going to do it as ... I'm not telling-\n\nHenry Go, MD: It's an interesting project.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Well, I think it will be. I think it's going to be worth something. I mean the main thing I want to do is capture something that I believe is a central fact of why it is that I went into medicine and why a lot of us went into medicine and what is it that we get out of medicine that's satisfying. And the other side of that is I want to analyze what it is that is hard about medicine.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: It's one thing to say you've got to keep up on your journals. It's a whole other thing to say I have a hard time going to bed tonight because I'm not sure what I did with this person or that person who happens to live down the street from me.\n\nHenry Go, MD: When I was on the rural health committee circuit and all that we used to think about all these problems. One of the things that we used to talk about was there's a small town instinct or some of our behavior or belief system is based on velocity of the small town. So we live in the big city but we still have that small town within us. America is a society in which there's strong influence of its values were developed in small towns, because we're only 300 years old.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: And everybody wants to have that and yet they want to live in a suburb or live in urban areas.\n\nHenry Go, MD: Yeah. The megalopolis is a new phenomenon in America which dates back only 50 years. [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=5120.0,5224.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] 50 to 89 is 50 years isn't it?\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: [crosstalk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=5224.0,5227.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"].\n\nHenry Go, MD: If you remember the '50s that's 49 years ago.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Well, Jean and Barbara were saying today that we went through Arcadia on the way up here to see where they used to live and where Julie first lived and stuff. I mean I've been showing Benji a little bit about Julie's history. It's been really good for us. I mean we went to San Francisco and we saw the place where we first lived when we got married, and we looked at different places and kind of walked him through.\n\nHenry Go, MD: How old is Benji?\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: 18. He's heading to college next year.\n\nHenry Go, MD: Wow. 18?\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Yeah. Wait until you see him tomorrow. He's a bigger boy. He's about 6'1\". So part of the thing is that he's off to college next year and I'm home by myself and so I want to get on to something.\n\nHenry Go, MD: Interesting project.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: For me it is.\n\nHenry Go, MD: The population you're studying is also a selected population.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: I agree.\n\nHenry Go, MD: You understand that?\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Oh, sure.\n\nHenry Go, MD: So that you might recognize it if certain basic qualities that people who practice in small towns and don't elsewhere. Between here in Oregon there's a lot of small towns. There's doctors up there. Individualistic, strong in their convictions, whether they be right or wrong. Humanistic, outreaching, altruistic because they have a sense of community. What is a sense of community?\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: I don't know anymore.\n\nHenry Go, MD: It may be a strong [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=5227.0,5330.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] sense of societal clustering of human beings for survival or whatever it goes back to or one of those things that allowed the human species to have survived so long.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: I do think one of the characteristics of people like yourself, I mean people who are in small towns is a kind of willingness to take some risks around complexity. In other words, there's some kind of attractiveness about what you know is a much more complex situation than the guy who's the gastroenterologist who punches in, in the morning and leaves at night. Why would you choose that?\n\nHenry Go, MD: I think when you're young you have this feel that ... I have this sense that within my armamentarium I had everything I needed to cure everything. I had more guts than I had brains. I did. So that the belief in self has to be strong and if it's not you couldn't survive in a small town. If you doubted yourself.\n\nHenry Go, MD: Now, the other thing is if you never doubted yourself you'd survive. I've met some guys like that.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Oh, I know. [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=5330.0,5410.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] dangerous people.\n\nHenry Go, MD: But everybody loves them.\n\nJohn F Frey III, MD: Right.\n\nHenry Go, MD: But in this one particular thing, in my own development of self, in chapter one of Passages, [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=5410.0,5426.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] in the area of developing recognition, after education comes recognition. That I wanted to be recognized that what I did had [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=5426.0,5448.0"},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817/transcript/81253/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] and that what I was doing was valid myself from both directions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277817#t=5448.0,1864.736"}]}]},{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277816","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 2 - Go_Henry_1989.03.28_-_Side_2.mp3"]},"duration":1856.816,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277816/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277816/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/277/816/original/Go_Henry_1989.03.28_-_Side_2.mp3?1750276090","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":1856.816,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://centerforthehistoryoffamilymedicine.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3180/collection_resources/150637/file/277816","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[]}]}